“It seems that some of the weaker brothers take issue with the freedoms of the stronger and are stumbled and therefore are missing the point of message or are distracted from it.”

What, is the pot not stirred up enough that you need to make a statement like that and get things boiling again? Jee wiz bro!!!

I hesitate to respond to Paul at this point, but I’ll just say this and then leave it alone. (I hope)

Paul (above) said, [Are we not supposed to defend our faith, and the “unadulterated” gospel? This has nothing to do with “being against” Driscol, or “for” Macarthur. It has everything to do with “rightly handling the word of truth.” Macarthur and Piper both tried to approach / reproach Driscol privately, but to no avail.]

MacArthur, Piper, Driscoll, Chuck, ALL preach the “unadulterated gospel”. Show me one instance where they’ve corrupted or denied it. All of these guys disagree in finer points, but completely agree on the basic and main things.

Piper had Driscoll speak at his conference. (these men love and admire eachother)
Driscoll had Piper speak at his church (just a few weeks ago)
GREG LAURIE took the opportunity to spend time with Driscoll just a few weeks ago during a visit to So Cal.
And I know many, many more Calvary pastors that thank God for a Mark Driscoll.
None of these guys believe for a second that he in any way preaches another gospel, or that he’s “adulterated” it.

As I said, this is probably just going to unleash more silliness, and Mark doesn’t need my defense. But since I was named as one that might not defend the “unadulterated gospel”.. I thought I’d make it clear that I do. And I love and appreciate all others that do, Mark Driscoll included.

As far as being critical of what some pastors are teaching out there, fine, disagree. But don’t attack. The heart and burden of a true shepherd does not lead him to go after other shepherds who don’t follow his methods or interpretations. Shepherds go after WOLVES! Wolves eat sheep! Lets direct our righteous anger at the myriad of wolves out there who are literally devouring lives!

So, in short, I found the video an instructive reminder of the dangers I face in my walk of becoming the older brother (anyone remember “The Prodigal God”?)

TCA – thanks for bringing us back on task…

TJ- Sorry, I’m back out now.

2 Timothy 2:14-16:
14Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. 16But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness

We are not quarreling about words, we are questioning the right handling of the word of truth. The gospel, God’s Word, the church, is getting so watered down by the world today in the name of being “seeker friendly”. The church seems to have lost its “fight” for Christ. This really concerns me and it seems should concern all those who read this.

I read the link Michele gave. It was right on. We should not be arguing about “my pastor is better than yours” as Paul was talking about in the referenced verse. And, indeed, this is not the issue here.

Are we all becoming afraid of ardently defending God’s Word, and only His Word, as HE wrote it, and not as men distort it in the name of growing “their” church under the guise that this is bringing more people to church?
We plant the seeds, God grows them. If we start watering those seeds with “fake water” instead of “living water” we are starting to widen the narrow path that God prescribes for salvation. When the real width of that path becomes apparent many will fall off unknowingly that would not have had they been offered the true hard facts of needing Christ because of our sinful nature.
Instead Mr. Driscol feels God’s Word is not good enough and must “enrich” it with worldliness.
A Sunday sermon on oral sex by Driscoll? Ya, I’m sure Christ would have loved that. And why?

Pastor Todd, you say that Driscol’s “potty mouth” or his designation as “cussing pastor” ….. “is completely unwarranted”?
Have you listened to Driscoll? Especially have you listened to his Song of Solomon series? Does God want any of us “adulterating” (for lack of a better word) the Word of God like this instead of treating this book, and the act of marriage, with the beauty and passion God intended? From Paul …..

I Cor 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. Christ the Wisdom and Power of God
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” 20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

I agree that we all need to make loving of each other, in Christ, and through Christ, the most important, especially being careful to not quarrel among each other. However, and VERY important – in doing this, we are to love each other enough, as Christ did, to admonish each other when we get off track. Colossians 3:16 (ESV) 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom.
Colossians 2:8 (ESV) 8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits[a] of the world, and not according to Christ.

I will end with a quote from the New York Times in an article specifically about Driscoll:
“Their approach was “seeker sensitive”: upon learning that many people didn’t go in for stained glass and steeples, these pastors made their churches look like shopping malls. Complex theology intimidated the curious, and talk of damnation alienated potential converts — so they played down doctrine in favor of upbeat, practical teachings on the Christian life.”

I do not wish to quarrel, or be controversial, but we are NOT to compromise God’s Word, His message, or allow others to do so at the expense of believers or unbelievers getting a watered down, distorted worldly message as opposite to “God’s Word, and nothing but God’s Word”.
This IS what the Pharisees were guilty of.

Clarification on the “potty mouth” comment. I deliver mail for a living. “Grace to You” had a mailing called “My case against the R-Rated church” The title was next to a picture of a bar of soap with tooth marks in it. (quite amusing actually). “Potty mouth” was my interpretation. Again I mean no disrespect. Love you all.