A Tough Question answered wellSeptember 20th, 2008 by Todd JohnsonThe subject of homosexuality is one that most of us have a conviction about but one that many of us have a difficult time articulating. The church has been made to look intolerant and judgmental toward homosexuals. Below is a clip of Ravi Zacharias speaking to the issue with great clarity and compassion. Both are necessary. 88 Responses to “A Tough Question answered well”Leave a Reply |
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Fantastic! Thanks Todd
That was probably the most amazing and touching answer I have ever heard dealing with homosexuality! The way he explained a persons race as being sacred and sex being sacred, it brought to light God’s specific design for the man and the woman. The way I have heard this question answered in the past has been “Homosexuality is an abomination to God” Although true it probably wouldn’t go over well if I said this to someone who was struggling with homosexual desires.
Than you so much for sharing the clip Todd! It has given me a more compassionate heart for those around me who may really be struggling.
An incredible, well thought-out answer, amd I pray more Christians (including pastors) see this video or at least do some pondering about the subject. The Christian tenet is to “love the sinner, hate the sin.” God loves the homosexual as much as He loves you or I. There is no question that homosexuality is a sin and is a direct violation of God’s perfect plan. But that’s what all sin is, and we are all sinners. Jesus died for us all. (Excuse the typos..I had to type this on-the-fly, as it were…)
“”"”EXCELLENT”"” thanks Todd. Have forward this information about this clip to friends, who have adult children who are struggling with this.
Blessings…
Every time I hear Ravi Zacharias I love him more. I loved what he said about a person’s race being sacred just as sex is sacred.
The real question is, “who sets the standard for right and wrong?” Especially when it comes to sex. Just about everyone knows that you don’t mix that with kids or animals, why? If we make up our own rules than why is that off limits but homosexuality is not?
God has set the standard and that is why it’s so controversial. Man will fight against God His because His ways seem like foolishness to those who do not believe.
I have know quite a few homosexuals growing up and I think that some of them were experimenting and some, like Ravi said, were dispositioned to it. But sin is sin. Homosexuality, adultery, divorce, gossip, lying, selfishness, being discontent, the list goes on and on. It all displeases God and I often wonder what the church and the world would be like if we felt equally as strong about them all.
I love listening to guys like Ravi. It encourages me to study more so I can do what Paul says in Col. 4:6. “Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.”
This is definitely a question I had running in my mind almost all last year. Over half my professors were gay and I really liked them as people. I went through a lot of heart searching as to their salvation and at times even came out angry toward Christianity for not just “accepting” people as they are. But you know what… God does ACCEPT us as we are, but He doesn’t allow us to STAY the way we are. As we get to know Him and find support in His fellowship of believers He changes us from the inside out. It is His job to change man – the only kind of change that really lasts. When someone decides to really get to know God on His terms and not their own, they will find this kind of change taking place in their heart.
I think the way Ravi approaches this topic is with empathy. He doesn’t agree or sympathize, but he understands sin’s nature and approaches it with compassion.
I was eager to watch this when I saw it had been posted. There is a friend of our family that has only a few days to live. Someone I am close to is taking care of her and disturbed because her daughter is a lesbian. My mother was waiting for a response after telling me that this woman’s daughter loves God.
She told me that someone can still be homosexual and love God. Honestly I didn’t know where to go with it. I wish I had seen this beforehand. I gave a safe answer, but not the best I could’ve given now having seen this.
I think Ravi hit the chief statement among the many other good ones when he said, “The character of God is impugned in the process.” I have never really heard it put that way. I understand now a foundation for any response to these questions. Second most important to me was God’s love and compassion.
This answer was right on the money. This debate does come up quit frequently in discussions about the church and Christianity. I’ve seen fruit from bringing the argument forth, that Ravi did here, about marriage. What married man can’t attest to the fact that he is hit with sexual temptation on a daily basis. In fact I would go as far to say that we have a “disposition” to lust outside of our marriage covenant. Does that mean that I fulfill that desire every time it emerges? No way! In the same way a person with a homosexual “disposition” does not have a right to act on that impulse simply because he inherently possess it.
I have thought a lot about people who do have this disposition. For whatever reason it is there. I can’t even start to presume why. If an unbeliever, we must pray that they receive Jesus so that they may be convicted of the sin that separates them from the Father. If a believer, and a believer that still has this disposition even after conversion, we must pray that God gives the grace to deal with this immensely difficult trial. Compassion and mercy should be our banner.
Grace
I too knew many homosexuals growing up, and I’ve worked with many and still do. I think perhaps that lessens the bigotry and prejudice, to know that by and large they’re normal people who have become dominated by the flesh.
Bigotry, after all, is the sin of self-centeredness/pride, and prejudice is the sin of judgmentalism. As Crossroads grows, this is a contoversy that will grow as well (I’m sure the pastoral staff has already had to deal with it).
Cindra’s said
“There is a friend of our family that has only a few days to live. Someone I am close to is taking care of her and disturbed because her daughter is a lesbian. My mother was waiting for a response after telling me that this woman’s daughter loves God.
She told me that someone can still be homosexual and love God.”
Cindra if she’s talking about someone who’s been saved and prior to conversion was a homosexual and is struggling with their flesh and falling back into temptation and even succumbing to that sin at times than yes. For we all have different sins that have ensnared us and we battle against that temptation and sin and by God’s Grace have victory. But if she’s saying that this person has been saved and is continuing in that same lifestyle unrepentant and unchanged than I’d say absolutely not. For God ultimately knows the heart but if you’ve been saved regenerated by the Holy Spirit that’s going to produce something in a life. There will be change and a conviction of the Holy Spirit at least.
She should have said I know a Christian who loves God and struggles with homosexuality. For once we are saved our identity is in Christ not in what we formally were. (Reference list below)
Lets for the sake of illustration change the sin in the sentence she used from – someone can still be a homosexual and love God. To:
Someone can still be a murderer and love God
Someone can still be a fornicator and love God
Someone can still be a idolater and love God
Someone can still be a drunkard and love God
Someone can still be a adulterer and love God
Someone can still be a thief and love God
Someone can still be a (fill in the sin) and love God
Is this what salvation produces in the Christian? Is this why our great God and savior Jesus Christ came to die? Is this being redeemed? We have been redeemed for a purpose so that the old self can be put to death and that the new man may live to glorify God. Not so we can continue in the wants and desires of the old man (flesh). Unfortunately it seems the church looks at homosexuality as a different kind of sin. But the bible knows nothing of that and lumps all these sins and even more together and never says any of them are caused by anything else but are sinful flesh and says there’s one cure for all these sins that’s being born again. I’m not saying that some sins aren’t harder to overcome than others or that some sins don’t have worse consequences than others. But the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead is the same Spirit that we have in us to give us victory over sin and produce a changed life for His glory.
Tom… I disagree with the statement, “There’s one cure for all these sins that’s being born again. Yes, we find true forgiveness in the blood of Jesus, and have a change of heart about sin… but, we still sin. And, it does not mean a cure for all. I have known many people that have struggled for years with drugs, etc. And, still loved the lord. Have you seen people that can stop taking drugs over night, and others struggled for years? Only the lord knows their heart. Who am I to judge, if they are true to Jesus or not? I would tell this monther that is worried about her daughter, to have everyone she knows, friends, church, etc. to continue to pray for her, including us.
Blessings…
I was thinking the same thing, Tom…that most Christians see homosexuality as one of the most severe sins that can be committed, yet a sin is a sin – one is as bad as another. (I believe Catholicism ranks the sins.)
In reference to you, TW…it is absolutely impossible for us to know a person’s heart. But I recall John Cano from VCL always expounding on what he called the “O” word…
“obedience.” If there was knowledge and acceptance of the Word, wouldn’t there be some (however small) outward fruit?
My mom professes to know Jesus, but there’s no fruit…she doesn’t have any desire to attend church, doesn’t even own a Bible and doesn’t fellowship with other Christians. Yet I’m constantly praying that there is that “mustard seed” of faith in her heart that only our Father can see. I pray that the person that Cindra was speaking of has that mustard seed of faith in her heart as well.
Point taken TW
I wasn’t saying we won’t still sin or struggle with sin see my first couple sentences. I was trying to address the person in whatever sin, this case being homosexuality. that when were saved and regenerated by the Holy Spirit there will be evidence.” Faith without works is dead” and in 1John he says that he’s writing to us so that we may not sin and that the one who says I’ve come to know Him and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him”. It seemed this person was saying to Cindra she’s a Christian lesbian and proud to be and there’s nothing wrong with that.
TW said
“And, it does not mean a cure for all. I have known many people that have struggled for years with drugs, etc”.
TW
The key word in your sentence is “struggle” that shows a working of the Spirit.
TW said
“And, it does not mean a cure for all.” Speaking of being born again.
I’m sure you meant that in the context of Sanctification because being born again is the only cure for sin there’s nothing else if it’s not what else should we be preaching to these people? “Unless one is born again he will not see the kingdom of God”.
As for the one cure the reason we sin still is not because Christ’s death wasn’t sufficient to keep us from sinning for in Christ is all things that pertain to life and Godliness (2Peter 1) But because were still in these body’s of death and still war against God.I think I wasn’t clear (surprise) we won’t be sinless this side of heaven again my first sentences. But that’s a whole lot different than being boastful and still wanting to be identified with are old man which was the point that I so miserably tried to convey.
P.S. You’re right on with the praying.
P.S.S. be gentle
Wonderful. Thanks Todd
Todd – I think you sparked something here. In watching the video and reading the posts it is clear that this issue is one that we as Christians do not feel particularly well-equipped to discuss. And less so in light of the fact that implying homosexuality is sin labels us as backwards, dangerous, out-of-touch, bigoted homophobes.
That said, I have personal experience in a political movement trying to recall a school board director who was ‘outed’ and said in the papers, “I want to teach our children that it’s o.k. to be gay.” I don’t apologize for taking a stand, but I was flat out embarrassed by the association with some Christians who used this episode as license to spew a vitriol that demonstrated neither meekness nor humility. Frankly, Christ was not well-represented.
And yet there is a far more damaging counter-force amongst Christians: believing the lies that homosexuality is just another choice – no big deal. Forget the stand that universities and corporations take on the issue for a moment. When religious institutions can’t agree on the issue we have much bigger problems (mostly related to the idea that the bible is a nice guideline but in many ways not relevant to our society).
But for the most part, I think there are a lot of Christians who, when cornered, would say, “Look, it would be a lot easier if we could just skip over the first couple of chapters of Romans and pretend like this was no big deal. I don’t like having to defend myself on this one.” I think the message from the video helps us to clarify our thinking (at least it does for me).
Regarding homosexuality…
I think perhaps the reason heterosexuals react so strongly to gay people is because straight folks personally find the lifestyle repulsive. I get that, but as stated earlier, sin is sin. (However, I believe the consequences of sins do vary. i.e. stealing a quarter from your workplace, as opposed to murder…a bit extreme, but I think you get my point.) Being gay is not the unpardonable sin.
Back to the gay lifestyle…
I read once where C.S. Lewis responded to someone in regards to a man having homosexual desires. The man wanted to know if his desires were a sin. C.S. Lewis responded that it was the “act” of homosexuality that would be the sin, not the temptation. He stated the same goes for other sins of passion: adultery, fornication, and ??? For some reason, I think because most of us are straight, we tend to judge homosexuality more harshly.
My brother-in-law’s brother is on staff for Exodus International. He was once gay and was healed (Through prayer and counseling) He is now married with four children and ministers, in LOVE, to the gay community.
No one is beyond God’s reach, the homosexual, fornicator, adulterer, porn addicted person etc.
God’s mercies are new every morning…for all of us.
Well put Tom. Thanks for all the scripture reference.
Jeff- I wish I could put Romans 1:18-32 in cups and make the whole world drink it. Then give them them tasty Romans 3:23 baked loaves. Then when there nice and full pull out the Romans 6:23 and 10:9 sweetened desserts… mmmmmmmm good.
Its to early for me to be acting this weird.
Grace
Ken- I agree with the fact that most “strait folk” find the lifestyle repulsive. If only we could find our own sin that repulsive instead of labeling one sin as the “greatest” sin.
As Damian Kyle said once “sin always looks most horrible on someone else”
Grace
ken says
“My brother-in-law’s brother is on staff for Exodus International. He was once gay and was healed (Through prayer and counseling) He is now married with four children and ministers, in LOVE, to the gay community.”
Praise God. That is such a difficult lifestyle to get out of. Our God is indeed an awesome God.
Mike said
“If only we could find our own sin that repulsive instead of labeling one sin as the “greatest” sin”.
So true.
Great quote from Damian.
A good clip, though I found myself wanting to boil down what he was saying to something concrete. He’s such a good speaker that it’s hard to know if you’re resonating with the truth or just the fact that he’s so well spoken. Just an observation.
This issue is very close to my heart, and I appreciated what he had to say. Specifically:
- You can be a Christian and still be an active homosexual, just like you can be an active gossip, or unmarried and living together, or any number of other sins. God works through those things after we come to Him.
- Those who are in leadership or a teaching role are held to a higher standard. There is a difference between accepting homosexuals into our fellowship and allowing them to be teachers.
I’m not sure I entirely get the race/sexuality thing. I think his argument is, race is sacred because it’s how God made us. Racism is a violation of that. He then says that we can’t violate sexuality for the same reason – it’s how God made us, so it’s sacred.
To which the homosexual would respond “Exactly! This is how God made me. How can you then say that it’s not ok?”
His argument seems like a good one against sex change operations, but not against homosexuality. Most people in that lifestyle will tell you that they don’t believe it’s a choice they made, but that it is in fact who they are.
He goes on to talk about the temptations of a married man, and I think that’s a much more solid argument.
Thanks for sharing this Todd.
Chris said – “His argument seems like a good one against sex change operations, but not against homosexuality. Most people in that lifestyle will tell you that they don’t believe it’s a choice they made, but that it is in fact who they are.”
I was born with selfishness “fatally ingrained” into me. From my great grandfather x1000 Adam.
“Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned”
I am born with sin. Some people are bent on different kinds of sin. I believe that someone can be born with homosexual desires but I do not believe someone is born with the label “homosexual” If that was the case I guess I could say I was born with the title “fornicator” or “idolater.” you become those things by giving yourself over to them. That’s the choice. Unfortunately humans are born into slavery and follow there wicked desires until they are set free from the indwelling sin by the glorious gospel of Jesus Christ.
Am I making any sense… probably not.
Grace
Mike… AMEN!!! Well said. Had a minister friend years ago that worked with the gay people in S.F. for many years. He told me that,”most of them, were people that just jumped on the band wagon. Different reasons; not being loved, accepted, not educated, etc. So, yes, you are right, it is a choice.
NOW~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ for you who have not pick up the book, PILGRIM’S PROGESS~~~~~~~~~~ PLEASE DO. I read it years ago, had a hard time, but this book is “”WONDERFUL”" to read. Great notes on the bottom of each page and wonderful scripture references. Bought it today, and had to stop myself from reading it. Have to keep in tune with everyone else… DARN IT!!! Even if you do not want to be in the book club, it is worth buying. You will be blessed.
Blessings…
TW – I would like to clear something up. I do not think a person chooses to have homosexual “desires.” I do think however that a person does choose to be a “homosexual” IE: someone given over to a lifestyle of homosexuality.
and likewise I do not believe that a strait man chooses to think adulteress thoughts. I do however believe he chooses to be an “adulterer” IE: sleeping with someone else who is not his wife.
Sorry to keep hammering this point… I just don’t want any confusion.
Grace
one more thing. Jesus said that if we lust after a woman in our hearts we have already committed adultery. So in either of the scenarios above, if a person is given over to either “homosexual desires” or adulteress desires” in his mind, he is still in essence in sin. Im not trying to make the point that its all about “actions” just that the difference between having an innate desire and reacting to that desire, either by deed or meditation, is choice…
phew… I think I need to put the brain down for a bit.
Grace (and mercy)
Mike- comment # 22 made perfect sense and I agree.
I was thinking about a few of the many things the Lord does in my life? He loves me, He saves me, He encourages me, He comforts me, He supplies my every need, the list goes on and on. However if I choose to live my life with sin as my love, comfort, and the supplier of my needs, I would be allowing sin to become my God? I don’t see how it would be possible to love God while I’m living in, and loving sin. Does that make sense?
Great point millie!
The way Ravi put the pieces together makes sense to me.
Men have been removed from the pastorate as a result of adultery and yet in some places are allowed to perform the duties of ministers and priests while practicing homosexuality. Why would homosexual practice be treated differently? They are both sexual sins.
I’ve watched this clip 4 times now, and I just can’t hear Mr. Zacharias saying “It’s okay to be a Christian and an active homosexual.” (post #21) The example he uses is of the gifted Bible commentator who – even though had homosexual proclivities – denied these sinful tendencies to do the work of Christ. (Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.” – Luke 9:23) The theologian was therefore not an active homosexual.
Once you welcome Christ into your heart, the label “Christian” drives out all other labels and desires, be they homosexual, adulterer, gossip, fornicator, etc. If you truly love Christ, your only desire is to be like Him, the sinless, spotless Lamb. Homosexuality is a sin (Lev. 18:22), and to the true Christian it can not exist as an active lifestyle.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” – John 14:15. If we say we sincerely love Him, how can we keep up a sinful lifestyle?
Do you become a Christian first and then leave the homosexual lifestyle, or do you have to have completely left that behind before you can become a Christian?
As always, enjoying reading all of your comments.
This is so strange. I watched this yesterday and thought, “Interesting, but nothing that terribly concerns me right now.” Then last night I received a call from my dad telling me a cousin’s husband had come out of the closet. (Not a local cousin) This couple has 2 grown children together and attends and has served in an Evangelical church for years. Needless to say, they’re all heart-broken. My dad said my cousin might be calling me for encouragement.
Church, do any of you have anything I can tell her? Do you know of any ministries in the Bay Area that biblically counsel folks in this situation? Any books, websites, sermons that offer help?
I’m hoping and praying that he doesn’t leave and fullfill his temptations, becoming entrapped. If anyone else thinks to pray for him, please do.
Chris says:
Do you become a Christian first and then leave the homosexual lifestyle, or do you have to have completely left that behind before you can become a Christian?
No, indeed! But you can’t remain an active homosexual if you have knowledge of the Word obtained after you become a Christian. I felt that the tenor of the original question was that gays and lesbians were serving the Lord for an indeterminate amount of time with no conviction that their lifestyle was sinful. Is it lack of proper teaching? Is it suppression of the Holy Spirit by the individual?
very well said Greg.
That’s how I heard it as well.
Michele
Joe Dallas has a book called “When Homosexuality Hits Home: What to Do When a Loved One Says They’re Gay” I’ve never read it but I’ve read some of his other stuff on the issue and I thought it was good. He’s a former homosexual who was active in the gay rights movement. Then God delievered him and he now ministers in the area of sexual sin. His website is joedallas.com Will keep them in prayer.
Michele
I suggest Exodus International:
http://www.exodus-international.org/
They’re a really great organization and most likely have a chapter nearby.
Greg
I agree that you can’t remain an active homosexual if you’re truly saved. God will convict you of that sin, just as He convicts each of us of our pride, selfishness, greed, craftiness, lust, faithlessness, disobedience, etc.
The thing that grieves me is that the church so often puts this issue on a pedestal all alone and treats it differently than other sins.
I’ve been a Christian for about 20 years, and I’m certain that there are hundreds of sins in my life that God has yet to show me and begin to fix. Not to mention the dozens that I am aware of and ever so slowly trying to overcome.
If you read the testimonies of those at Exodus who have come out of the gay lifestyle, most of them came to faith while still actively gay. Then it was God who – over time – convicted them of their sin and led them out of that lifestyle.
I hope I’m making sense…
Greg, I get the same sense when I hear people discussing (not our blog, but “out there”) the homosexual issue – that we are to condone or accept the practice within the church.
I have also enjoyed this topic, and really liked Ravi’s response. So I’m just going to dive in here. I made a commitment to Christ when I was very young; I had an active relationship with Him till I was about 13. I still went to church when mom made me of course, but my life started to go downhill as I trusted in myself and my needs. From years 14-20 I lived in sin and its desires. When I re-dedicated my life, I was living with my boyfriend and that day I moved out. I knew that it was the only way to honor God and to flee the temptation. Not that we didn’t struggle, we did; but from the day I made the choice to move out to the day we got married 3 years later we had not had sex. The Lord provided that strength for me, for us and the battle was won, most importantly, He was honored.
Yeah, Jill. Like that! You just said what I was trying to say. Thanks!
Greg- I appreciate your thoughts on this topic.
Regarding “straight” folks…I have noticed lately the frightening idea by some people that call themselves Christians, yet are living in fornication, stating it is “ok” because they are in “love”. Anyone else notice this? Young folks in churches, Christian colleges, in Bible studies,… perhaps “engaged”, saying that it is ok to be sexually active because they are getting married anyway. x/?x/////x???!!!
It is pretty sobering and amazing to me that the concept of sin in heterosexual circles is so much more played down than in the homosexual arena. This is a frightening acceptance in the Church at large by some folks that need to reread their Bibles on this topic. It’s ALL sin. It’s All wrong.
Post #39 “Your comment is awaiting moderation?” ??? How’d that get there?
Sometimes if you put a link in a comment, it has to be moderated before the rest of us can see it.
Chris said
“The thing that grieves me is that the church so often puts this issue on a pedestal all alone and treats it differently than other sins”.
I agree the Church has failed miserably in the way in which they’ve addressed this sin. We should always address people with gentleness and respect and in the fear of the Lord. Knowing that persuasive words or pounding someone over the head with the bible doesn’t deliver it’s only by Gods Grace that anyone’s delivered.
My first postings on this issue was trying to address the person that says it’s ok to be a homosexual and be a Christian. I was trying to point out how ridiculous it sounds to say I know a homosexual that loves God. It seems to me that their saying its ok to continue in that lifestyle. I would never want to give anyone an assurance of their salvation as their living in complete disobedience to God. This includes any sin not just homosexuality. I also know that only God knows the heart but God says by their fruit you will know them and also says that many will say that they know God and He will say He never knew them. We are to be deliverers of the truth that God has given us not bury our truth in the sand so we won’t have to confront anyone regarding sin. I would never want to comfort anyone in their sin and give them a false assurance. Let me say again for those who will misunderstand me and probably are seeing me as one of the above that all this should be done with GENTLENESS, RESPECT, AND THE FEAR OF THE LORD AND MUCH PRAYER.
Greg asid,”I felt that the tenor of the original question was that gays and lesbians were serving the Lord for an indeterminate amount of time with no conviction that their lifestyle was sinful. Is it lack of proper teaching? Is it suppression of the Holy Spirit by the individual?’
Could be poor teaching, lack of response to the Holy Spirit too. or rebellion…?
I think the Church needs to rise up and be consistent in addressing sin, not just homosexual lifestyles.
There is a fine line between “policing” folks and guiding them in Christ. I agree with you Greg, whether it is right at conversion or shortly thereafter, the Holy Spirit and the Word of God are both there to enlighten and change a person. Any extended Christian life that exhibits the same previous lifestyle as a person’s former one should be lovingly brought into question.
Thanks for the links and book titles. I’m going to check them out.
I listened to Todd’s message from Wed. nite on my walk this morning, and the opening points he made about providing for the flesh really hit me. This is what makes us fall, no matter what the sin is. Whenever we are over-taken, if we’re honest, we can see things we saw, said, listened to, thought, loved, focused on, indulged in, read, ate, drank, whatever, that got us to that place. Every sin begins with a lie that comes to us, and it’s what we do with that lie that determines that sin’s power over us.
For some reason, we’ve begun to separate homosexuality (as well as other sins having to do with the body) apart from others, and by doing this it seems they almost need a special treatment, a remedy that’s different than the others. It’s like the power of the Gospel isn’t enough; We need to set up clinics, special support groups, etc. for these. Do you think this might actually discourage the person trying to battle these particular sins? Might it make him think his sin is unique, bizarre, not really something God deals with? Something God might even be unfamiliar with? Something that Jesus, our High-Priest wasn’t tempted with, has no understanding of?
Don’t get me wrong; It’s great that people are starting to actually write about, preach about, hard, humiliating, besetting, troubling sins like homosexuality, cutting, binging and purging, pornography addiction. I love that our Church is providing a study that ministers to those with addicting, overwhelming sin. When I was first saved this was rare and brothers and sisters struggled alone, thinking their sin was too horrible to confess, too twisted to be forgiven. They weren’t equipped to fight because they were too ashamed to describe their battle to anyone. But now we’ve sort of swung the other way, focusing on and treating sins as so specialized I think it might have the same affect.
When Paul wrote the Corinthians, he said,
“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor the drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, your were sanctified, your were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Cor. 6:11
Paul didn’t describe their recovery, redemption, sanctification, growth in categories. (“And those of you who went to the Eating Disorder Clinic in Arizona, spending thousands of dollars, and you sexually immorals who met with a support group discussing ad naseum your struggles, etc.) They all were addressed together, their sanctification and justification had all been together, in the name of the Lord and by the Spirit of God. The brother who struggled with bitterness and slander would have to fight it the same way as the brother who’d been a prostitute or a drunk, making no provision for the flesh. They knew that sin, no matter what it was, lying or adultery, would kill them the same in the end.
In ministering to homosexuals, we need to keep this in focus. It’s not their homosexuality that’s going to chain them and send them to hell, it’s their sinful heart, something that’s really wrong with them, broken inside. The homosexuality is just a result of this. Rigomortis doesn’t kill you, it just shows you’re already dead.
I hope I don’t sound rude, asking for special encouragement, then you guys kindly give it, then I sort of put-down special encouragement.
Again, I think ministering to special needs is important, but I guess it just seems we isolate some making them seem weird and unconquereable. Do you know what I mean?
Tom
Thank you so much for your response to my question. I am so sorry it took me so long to reply. I got busy and haven’t read since my post. The rephrasing put it into perspective for me. The one that really got me was, “someone can still be an idolater and love God.” That did it. And yes she is a proud homosexual that claims to love God. Wish I were here to have cleared that up sooner.
Chris said,
“The thing that grieves me is that the church so often puts this issue on a pedestal and treats it differently then other sins.”
I cannot tell you how much I agree and why this bothers me for two reasons, the first being that I too place it on a pedestal since I am surrounded with that view. (Scary and weak minded on my part I’m realizing.) The second reason is that people can’t even be honest about sharing that they are tempted by homosexual desires, without knowing that the body and their friends will change their perception of them when learning that they struggle with such things. Either male or female your friends would certainly distance themselves from you at least mentally and perhaps without even realizing it.
Somebody said, something like, “This proud and openly excepted view of homosexuality can be the result of poor teaching and the lack of the Holy Spirit.” I would completely agree with both since they are connected at their core.
Wow this is good stuff. Jill’s story reminded me of something else. I remember going to hang out with a couple of girls one night, a week after the retreat that changed, mine and Jill’s life. I decided to smoke a few cigarettes and drink a couple of beers but not to get drunk, I didn’t get drunk but I felt miserable. My old lifestyle was losing it’s appeal it had been a filler to the void in my life. I had tasted the Lord’s greatness and was losing my appettie for the sin I had been devouring every day. If someone truly makes that decision to live for Christ their sin… AHH I have to go but I am sending this anyway.
I’ll try to finish my sentence now. If someone truly makes that decision to live for Christ their sin, begins to look like sin.
Amen, Millie.
I found this article interesting in light of the conversation here, so for those that still want to think more about this issue…
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2008/09/toward-a-t heology-of-homosexuality/
(PS) I didn’t read the entire article so I cannot responsibly endorse everything said, but what I did read I found to be both Biblical and interesting.