CHAPTER TEN: The Problem of Sin
July 29th, 31e by Todd JohnsonFINALLY a subject that we are all experts in!!! Now every one of us has an equal opportunity for input and discussion.
There is a lot of great material to discuss in CH 10, but what I thought I would do is to simply lay down some great quotes on the subject of sin.
I’m sure there is something from this catalogue that will stir your heart and rack your mind with the truth represented.
Looking forward to a great discussion this week.
F.F. Bruce - “There is something in man - even a regenerate man - which objects to God and seeks to be independent of Him.”
Robert Murray M’Cheyne - “The seeds of all sins are in my heart, and perhaps all the more dangerously that I do not see them.”
A.W. Pink - “It is not the absence of sin but the grieving over it which distinguishes the child of God from empty professors.”
John R. Stott - “Only the mature believer reaches the place both of self-disgust and self-despair.”
Eric Alexander - “The real horror of being outside of Christ is that there is no shelter from the wrath of God.”
John Bunyan - “One leak will sink a ship; and one sin will destroy a sinner.”
John Bunyan - “Sin is the dare of God’s justice, the rape of His mercy, the jeer of His patience, the slight of His power and the contempt of His love.” (Note: What a great definition of sin)
C.H. Spurgeon - “Sin is no little thing. It girded the Redeemer’s head with thorns, and pierced His heart… Look upon all sin as that which crucified the Savior, and you will see it to be ‘exceeding sinful’.”
D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones - “What is sin? It is failure to glorify God.”
40 Responses to “CHAPTER TEN: The Problem of Sin”
Leave a Reply
About Todd
Name: Todd Johnson
Location: Grass Valley, CA
Contact: todd@crossroadslive.com
About: Todd is the husband of Sharon, the father of Morgan, Caleb, Makenzie & Claire, and a pastor at Crossroads Church. He considers each of these roles the greatest of privileges.
Verse of the Week
“For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.”
- 1 John 5:3 ESV
Now
Reading:
Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem
“The Hidden Smile of God” by John Piper
“Pilgrim’s Progress” by John Bunyan
The ESV Study Bible
Listening:
Coldplay - Viva la Vida
Jack Johnson - Sleep Through the Static
Scott Cunningham - ‘Til the Whole World Hears
Archives:
- Devotionals (2)
- Quotes (1)
- Recommended Links (4)
- Recommended Resource (6)
- Sermon Wrap-up (5)
- Blog Archives >
Church Web Design - Trinet Internet Solutions, Inc.
July 29th, 2008 at 11:07 am
I read half the chapter and lost my book, right when it was getting awesome. (No, my dog ate it.)
Those quotes are so powerful, so true, I’m going to copy the whole post out. Here are a few more:
“There is no sin for which it is worth your while to be damned.” ~Charles Spurgeon
“I am more afraid of my own heart than of the Pope and all his Cardinals.” ~Martin Luther
“Sin comes to us, like Judas with a kiss and like Joab, with an outstretched hand and flattering words.” ~J.C. Ryle
“Sin is a spiritual cancer. A man who tries only to live with cancer, dies with it.” ~Vance Havner
July 29th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Excuse me while I sit convicted and speechless. What can I say to quotes like those? “I’m undone.” “Oh retched man that I am. Who will save me from this body of death?”
They are all great quotes but I think the last one by MLJ best defines what sin is and makes me wonder about most of the things that occupy my time.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Sin is a violation of the law of God. It’s a violation of the moral character of God and His laws. As, told to us in the bible. That’s all we need to say about it. So, we study our bible and find out what God commands us to do and not to do. And, in doing, we find out the essential elements of God’s nature. And, whenever we violate those - - - we sin.
Thomas Goodwin - The Puritan wrote: Sin called poison, sinners serpents; sin is called vomit, sinner dog’s; sin is called the stench of graves, sinners rotten sepulchers; sin is called mire, sinner pigs. It is defiling and degrading. It stamps the devils image on the human soul.”
And, with all this, my dear friends in Christ, He continues to bless us with HIS GREAT LOVE, MERCY AND GRACE.
Blessings…
July 29th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I left out a really good quote. Here it is..
Simon Peter - “He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.” 1 Peter 2:24-25ESV
July 29th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Oh my goodness!!! I think I’ve highlighted, underlined and circled every part of this chapter. My vote for best chapter so far is Chapter 10! If this chapter doesn’t thoroughly bless you than you need to re-read it again and again until it does.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Great Quotes!
How wonderful to know that God still loves us in spite of our ugly sin.
This chapter reminded me that my time is not my own. I can’t tell you how often I have given God the last minutes of my day and not the first. Saying to myself “I will read my bible later or pray when the day slows down”. He gave me his life why is it so hard for me to give him all of mine?
July 29th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
These two quotes really spoke to me.
F.F. Bruce - “There is something in man - even a regenerate man - which objects to God and seeks to be independent of Him.”
St. Augustine – “Our hearts are restless until they find their rest in thee!”
This chapter has really made me reflect on my own sinfulness and the awesome grace and mercy of God
Having been regenerate and saved by God.
It always amazes me how many times I try to find my rest and satisfaction in everything else but the Lord. How many countless times must I feed in the pig’s trough of life and this world before I learn to find my satisfaction in the Master and His table?
July 30th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
I love Kierkegaard’s definition of sin! He says: “Sin is the despairing refusal to find your deepest identity in your relationship and service to God. Sin is seeking oneself, to get an identity, apart from him.” He goes on to say we were made not only to believe in God but to love him supremely and center our lives on him, and that anything other than this is sin.
I am ashamed of how many times I have made something or someone the center of my life and not God. Funny how it never really works out when I do it my way.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:44 pm
“There are only two kinds of men: the righteous who think they are sinners and the sinners who think they are righteous.” Blaise Pascal
July 31st, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I agree with you Perry…I liked this chapter a lot! (LOTS of yellow highlighting!)
(Written with Blogging Rule #1 in mind))
The sections, “Personal Consequences of Sin”, and “Social Consequences of Sin” really spoke to me. From what will I get my identity and let it define me? Through my job title? My “good” family? My” intelligence?”…(or lack of any of these?)
I think the “church” at large has copied this “value / identity” pattern often times as well. “Titles” many times are purposely given to whet your appetite, to impress others, to make folks sit up and take account. Don’t get me wrong. You can introduce folks to a crowd and let them know where the speaker is coming from…but I don’t think that is sometimes what is going on. I have even been to Christian events where the name dropping and promoting of folks is sickening. This mindset of gaining your identity from” something” feeds a standard that permeates our lives, Christians included. Rarely will you hear a parent say, “My son is going to be a maintenance man, or, sell tie-dyed shirts on the beach, be an” artist.” (unless he is an amazingly gifted one like Frank!) Rarely would you hear these professions shared with a healthy confidence in their voices…instead, it’s more of, my son the “doctor”, “lawyer” straight “A” student., ” the best athlete on the team” (Although, if they make a large income then they are considered “successful” pretty much no matter what they do!)
I have taught school for a few years and I am so amazed at how some parents can devalue their children. Low and struggling students are marked as just “common”, (and who would want to just blend in and be that?) The retort is, “We need to use our gifts to honor God!” Is that really what is going on here? (That takes way too much humility and that’s not fun or very impressive.) At a young age this concept of being valuable by what you “produce” or “have”, the “name” you make for yourself, etc. oftentimes is the goal or focus of the “successful” life. Rarely the character or the person you become appears to be the most important attribute. It sadly seems to be the last thing mentioned, if mentioned at all.
This was a humbling chapter that brings a lot of soul-searching as the Holy Spirit continues to reveal the black hole that God calls my heart…
Both of these chapter sections caused an,” Ouch” and “Praise the Lord” simultaneously.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Very good points Ken! Thanks.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Hey Frank…. where are you, are vacation too????????????
Miss you. Met Mike last night before bible study, nice guy.
He is missing you too.
Blessings….
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 am
I am trying to read chapters 1-8 before we finish the book. Last night I read chapter 1.
Honestly it was a little overwhelming for me, however reading everyone’s blogs from this chapter helped me see things I had missed and misunderstood.
It only took me five hours to read through all 43 comments. J/K.
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 am
Millie,
That’s cool that you’re going back and trying to catch up. Perry did a nice review of everyone’s comments I think in the intermission chapter (excluding his own comments of course…so humble).Anyway it would be nice if you post some of your thoughts on those chapters as you go through it might kind of be like a review for us and might stimulate some more blogging.
God Bless
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Millie…. GOOD GIRL. When I first started reading this book, I never thought I would get through it!!!! A lot of times, I did not have a clue, what Keller was talking about. But, with everyone posting, and me asking questions, it really HELPED!!!! So, now I feel like a whiz kid, no just kidding.
If anything, it made me dig deeper into the bible. And, then doing, “The Truth Project” here at home, has opened an other wonderful door for learning. So much, of the Truth Project goes right along with the book. Perfect timming for me…
Blessings…
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Ken- Nice comments. I especially like the comments about the subtle sin of pride. Pride seems to sneak in the back door unnoticed a lot of the time. Pride is ugly. For some reason it blares itself openly to me when I see it on other people. I’m able to say “smugly” to myself “that guy has pride issues” yet my own pride is so clouded. In fact I’ve found in my own life that I cant even see my own pride until its pointed out by a well meaning brother/sister or the Word of God.
In getting absolutely rocked with this issue lately God has revealed something else. Pride really does seem to be the root of all sin. Some element of pride is what can be attributed to every malicious and malignant thing we do, purposed or unknowingly.
I am way to proud. Its disgusting. I’m not even really sure how to get rid of it either. More Word… yes… more prayer… yes sure… more fellowship… eh… ok yeah that too… I just need more Jesus. Strike that… I need to be more like Jesus.
In this very effective and compelling chapter on sin I would exhort us all to pray diligently to have our sin/pride revealed to us as by fire. We just cant even see it ourselves! May we be purged of subtle sin as to be vessels of Holiness set apart for the work of the Master. Honorable vessels ready for His use as He sees fit. Holy Spirit purify us!
Grace
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Mike- Nice comments back to you!
Pride wears many different masks, I think that is why it is so difficult to detect at times.
God gently shows me “doses” of my pride in daily lessons…otherwise, I think I would just drop over dead if he revealed it all at once…seriously!
August 2nd, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Mike,
Good point, we should be praying that God reveals our sins to us as painful as that my be. One of my biggest struggles is talking to non-believers about Jesus, just doing it!! I am so afraid I will say the wrong thing or forget the scriptures. Tom, I think you said something about this and how the Lord is the one doing the talking. We are just his instruments!
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Yes Millie, for me one of the most freeing things God showed me in my Christian walk was that just like I couldn’t save myself I also can’t save anyone else. It’s the gracious work of the Holy Spirit. I’m called to give an answer for the hope that is in me (1 Peter 3:15). It’s the Holy Spirit who does the work in the heart.
I used to think that I had to have all the answers or the person would go to hell and it would be at least partly my fault for not having the right answers. God says in His word that all suppress the truth in unrighteousness and are without excuse and deserving of hell. So how bad is it that I would suppress the truth that He’s given me and not share it because of my pride?
I realized that the excuse I was using was really about pride in my life and a fear of being laughed at or mocked or maybe even rejected by people. As I grow in the Lord and realize and see His Love, Grace and Mercy towards me how can I possible hold back and deny my Master because of my personal pride, God forbid.
I think it was from Todd that I heard this quote ” the closer we walk with Jesus the more mud that they throw on Him will land on us” May we be buried in mud for the glory of God.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:02 pm
Ken said something that I would like to comment on.
“Both of these chapter sections caused an,” Ouch” and “Praise the Lord” simultaneously.”
There is a doctrine that has given me a tremendous amount of grief. It is called “The Doctrine of Indwelling Sin” and simply put it teaches that we will always have a sin nature and will never be rid of it this side of heaven. That’s the “Ouch” part. I have to live with this sinful flesh until the day I die or Christ returns. Whichever comes first.
But there is another doctrine that has given me an even greater amount of joy, the “Praise the Lord” part. So much so that it has overwhelmed the grief. It is called “The Doctrine of Progressive Sanctification” and simply put it teaches that throughout the course of our Christian life God, by the power of the Holy Spirit, progressively defeats the influence of sin in our lives.
“And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” (Philippians 1:6, ESV)
Most of the time this process is very slow but sometimes it comes in like a tidal wave. I’ve experienced both. But the tidal waves were by far the most painful. In order to be changed I had to be broken. I had to be brought to a place of total agonizing helpless surrender.
During one of those “tidal waves” the word of God through the Apostle Paul spoke something that changed my life forever.
“For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.” (Romans 7:18, ESV)
One day I went from thinking that there was something good in me, in my fleshly ability, to knowing that there was not. I was liberated from trying to rid myself of sin through my own efforts. No amount of bible reading, no amount of praying and no amount of Christian service could ever change the fact that I was completely helpless. (Don’t get me wrong. All those things are extremely important and valuable and constitute our part in the sanctifying process. But lets not forget that there are a lot of people out there who read the bible and serve and even pray but are not saved. Without the Spirits work those things profit nothing.)
As I said, I realized at that point that I was completely helpless. So what does a helpless person do? He asks for help. No way, I thought, it can’t be that easy. The words of Jesus assured me that it can.
“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!” (Matthew 7:7-11, ESV)
A changed heart is a very “good thing”. And as I went through one of those tidal waves God reminded me that I had been asking Him to change my heart. The tidal wave was His answer to that prayer.
Now this is where I have to ask myself, “How much pain am I willing to go through in order for God to have my heart?” Am I willing to say, “Whatever you have to do Lord.” This is when the tears usually start to flow, as they are even now as I type this. I don’t say it without a deep sense of fear at the implications. I don’t enjoy pain. But I do enjoy the result of it.
The only good that we will ever be able to gain is the good that God puts in us. And He does it in us the same way He did it in Job and David and Joseph and Ruth and Peter and Paul and all the rest.
I’m just thankful that I can now rest from my efforts and leave it up to Him.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:18 pm
One more thing. I’d like to add something to the second to last paragraph. God doesn’t need my permission before He can do His work in my life. He made a promise to change me way before I said, “Whatever you have to do Lord.” It’s just more pleasing to Him when I “willingly” lay my life down for His glory. I don’t want to be a Jonah.
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Perry,
I heard Piper quote a verse from the hymn “Am I a soldier of the cross” this week it really spoke to me and thought of it when I read your post..
“Must I be carried to the skies
On flowery beds of ease,
While others fought to win the prize,
And sailed through bloody seas?”
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Perry-
Amazing truths! Thanks for sharing.
Regarding the “work” that needs to be done in us and through us…
Isaiah 42: 5-8
“Thus says God, the Lord,
Who created the heavens and spread them out,
Who spread out the earth and what comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it: and spirit to those who walk in it:
“I am the Lord; I have called you in righteousness;
I will take you by the hand and keep you;
I will give you as a covenant for the people,
A light for the nations,
To open the eyes that are blind,
To bring out the prisoners from the dungeon,
From the prison those that sit in darkness.
I am the Lord; that is my name:
My glory I give to no other…”
All the “breaking” that has to be done, (IF actual breaking has to be done) is done by Him (and in the purest way I might add), and all the work is His.
Notice:
“I will take you by the hand”(HE will take me by the hand!)
“I have called you in righteousness” (HE makes us righteous!)
I will give you as a covenant (promise) for the people” (HE chooses to use us!)
“a light for the nations” (He makes us light for Him…amazing!)
“to open the eyes of the blind!” (He uses us to bring Truth to the blind!)
“from the prison those that sit in darkness” (As Mike mentioned above, HE uses us to share Him with others!)
“I am the Lord; that is my name”
Wow! It is God that does the work Perry, gently, unless we are “stiff-necked” (which I can be at times) He is the one that changes us.
Any understanding of compassion, forgiveness, patience, etc. that we might have is only a sliver of who God is. His lovingkindness is new every morning.
Blessings
I
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I have listened to the sermon where he quotes that hymn almost 4 times in the last week or two. “Together For the Gospel 08″ right? Thank you for the reminder. It was my favorite sermon of the event.
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Awesome passage Ken! Love your insight too!
Question for ya. Do you think Job and Joseph were stiff necked?
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Perry-
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
No more than me…I’m in trouble!
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:54 am
Perry,
It’s really late so my brain is kind of wacky but, when you said: “Whatever you have to do Lord” it made me realize that I need to stop fighting the Lord and submit to him no matter what the sacrifice.
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:17 am
Millie - You’re so right! God is going to have His way, even when I don’t cooperate. Fighting just makes it harder on me. I’ve found that surrender and dying to myself is much easier on my nerves. The pressure is off when I die. When was the last time you saw a corpse struggling?
August 3rd, 2008 at 9:56 am
Tom- Man… how much it just stings our pride to have mud flung on us because we stand next to Jesus. Our old nature HATES rejection. Its so convicting to think about all the times I don’t proclaim the truth, Or stand against unrighteousness. You are right though, it is pride.
Easier said then done though. So funny, I can be so bold and eloquent when speaking to unbelievers about theology, politics, and world events. Why? because I’m filled to my stinking eyes with pride in my intellect thats why. You get me in the arena of thinking and I’ll battle boldly even against a person who is obviously superior. Simply because of pride. Yet… sadly… you get me in a situation were all God wants me to do is say is…
“Your sins have separated you from the true and living God. Creator of the earth, ocean, sky and Heaven. Jesus, God only son, came to die in your place so that God’s wrath might not fall against you in judgment. Flee to this sacrifice! Come under the protection of what God has already done for you. Repent and be born from above by the Holy Spirit.”
I find it almost silly to say these things to people at work. I almost always think I have to preface it with context and history and creative wording. Blah! What vomit. How sick am I?
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek” Romans 1:16
Lets never let our pride get in the way of simply, firmly, sharing the good news with people we come into contact with. There is NOTHING complicated about it. In fact doesn’t that bring Jesus more glory that we really have to do nothing but share and through the message He does the work. He gets the glory we get humility.
Grace
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I have been struggling with sin for so long. This chapter for me was profound. Keller says,” Sin is the despairing refusal to find your deepest identity in your relationship and service to God. Sin is seeking to become oneself, to get an identity, apart from him.” I know there is a struggle withing us, but can this struggle become sinful if we try to take it on ourselves?
Is our true struggle just keeping our eyes on Jesus?
Here is a quote by Pursuit of God by Tozer from his chapter on The Gaze of the Soul. I have written this down and have to come back to it over and over when I feel helpless to eradicate my flesh and become discouraged. He says
” While we are looking at God we do not see ourselves - blessed riddance. The man who has struggled to purify himself and has had nothing but repeated failures will experience real relief when he stops tinkering with the soul and looks to the perfect One. While he looks at Christ, the very things he has so long been trying to do will be getting done within him. it will be God working in him to will and to do.”
Isn’t that simple and beautiful? Why do I forget this over and over? It is where my focus should be - on Jesus.
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:59 pm
I have been so blessed by reading the comments from this week, and by listening to the sermon that Perry and Tom mentioned.
Thanks everyone for putting your hearts out here and blessing mine.
August 3rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Last thought and then I will be quiet…
I recently reread Absolute Surrender by Andrew Murray.
“Absolute surrender!” For me it is when I come to the end of my rope (surrender), that I realize I can’t really make the REAL changes God wants anyway. (the ones that come from the heart) Only God in His mysterious, patient, and all-knowing way, does this for me.
What a relief and what rest when I keep that in perspective.
August 3rd, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Donnie - Awesome Tozer quote! So true!
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Donnie,
Thanks for sharing that qoute from Tozer!
Your’e not alone when it comes to forgetting over and over the amazing glory and perfection of our Lord. It sounds like all of us have come face to face with what sin really is and want nothing more than to defeat it! For me it’s going to take two very important steps. Dying to myself and Surrendering to God. Perry and Ken great thoughts!
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Chis - Miss ya bro! Good to hear from you!
August 4th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Okay just finished chapter two “How could a good God allow suffering?” My favorite part from the book was,”We cannot fathom, however, what it would be like to lose not just spousal love or parental love that has lasted several years, but the infinite love of the Father that Jesus had from all eternity. Jesus’s sufferings would have been eternally unbearable. Wow!
My favorite blog was Joe T’s. His response to the trials he endured convicted me. Todd was right, he had the best comment of the day. “I accept what happens because I am not smart enough to know why these things happen.” This might sound strange but when I read Joe’s blog his words seemed very calm.
Anyway those are my thoughts on chapter two. I’m catching up!
August 4th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Keep going Millie! We’re all pulling for ya!!
August 6th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Had a question that I would like to throw out to everyone. The answers given will help me make a decision I have been wrestling with so any input would be welcome and processed.
The over all big picture of the question is this. “How solid is the typology in the Old Testament (specifically the book of Leviticus) between leprosy and sin?”
Here are some questions to more closely define what I mean.
Did God really intend us as believers to look back on the OT and draw out application for our lives based on the typology of leprosy?
Can we apply how the priests were commanded to deal with leprosy in Leviticus 13 to our own lives in reference to sin?
I guess what im really asking is how much weight should we give typology? and im referring to the universally held typologies not the hair brained out there ones that some people find. for example.
Levin = sin
Birds = corruption and evil.
Leprosy = sin
7 = completion
Seed = Word of God/Truth
Olive Oil = Holy Spirit
etc etc…
Just seems like the book of Leviticus would have almost no application to us as Christians unless it was typology. On the other hand if we are ment to take it and use it carefully through typology then what a wealth of help it could be. Just wondering how far we should take it in “practical” application. I know what im typing might sound confusing but if anyone out there is tracking with me I would apreitiate some inspired help.
Grace
August 7th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Mike… missed this question. Cooking a turkey today, but will get back to you later on this one. What are you doing up at 1:30 a.m.???????????
Blessins…